No one gets diagnosed with good things. At least, that’s what most would like to believe. However, for those with ADHD, the diagnosis could be a gift. This is the story that Peter Shankman is working to tell. He is a three-time entrepreneur, host of an ADHD and neurodiversity podcast called Faster Than Normal, and a best-selling author. In this episode, he talks to Elliot Begoun about the concept around the neuro-atypical economy or the neurodiverse economy. He sheds light on the little-known facts around people with ADHD and why he thinks they are the most creative people that companies should strive to hire and provide an environment to thrive. Plus, Peter also talks about the customer experience and how you can successfully create better relationships with them. There is so much wasted potential in the world. Businesses should learn to open themselves up to brilliant people that are often untapped. Pair that with great customer service, and the sky’s the limit. Join Peter in this conversation as he shows us more.

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Listen to the podcast here

On Neurodiversity And Customer Experience With Peter Shankman

We’ve got an amazing guest. Peter is joining us fresh off a tuck and roll off a scooter which he’s doing well. Thanks to a pedestrian paying no attention to him. I’ll let him tell the story. He is bandaged up but still game and here to make it happen. I’ll let Peter do the intro of himself because I would do him a disservice in trying to do it. Peter, thanks for joining. Tell a bit about you and share the story about what happened.

It was easy. This is New York City. Anywhere you walk or ride or drive or cycle, you’re going to encounter idiots. Now was no different. I was coming down on my scooter down to 9th Avenue to a meeting on 14th Street. Normally, my hand is on the swivel but some guy came in between two trucks and blinded me. He was maybe 8 feet in front of me when I noticed him. He just appeared. I was going for 25 miles an hour in a heavy scooter and I’m a heavy guy. It was either going to crash into him and probably take him out hard or lay the scooter down. I laid the scooter down and had a nice, “It’s Wednesday. I’m wearing a T-shirt today.” It didn’t do too well. I ripped up my jeans and I ripped my arm but I’m alive and well.

The background on me is I’m a three-time entrepreneur. I started three startups and exits, most notably the Help a Reporter Out or HARO. I host a podcast in ADHD and neurodiversity called Faster Than Normal. I have five bestseller books, including Faster Than Normal, on the concept of using your ADHD to your advantage. I’m a keynote speaker. I’m traveling the world speaking about customer experience, neurodiversity, how to suck 1% less. I’m a talking head on CNN and most of the networks. I’m a dad to a daughter That’s me.

An underachiever but that’s all right. We all are. There’s one topic in particular and the reason I wanted to reach out was to talk about this concept around neuro-atypical economy or the neurodiverse economy. Can you share with those reading how you operationally define that? What do you mean by that?

Neurodiversity is essentially the premise that anywhere from 10% to 25% of the country is neurodiverse whether they’re diagnosed or not. It’s a different brain so ADD, ADHD, autism spectrum and executive function disorder. There are countless different ways that the brain is built, as it were. For me, I’ve always had my ADHD but growing up, it didn’t exist. Growing up, it was, “Sit down,” and, “You’re disrupting the class.” As I get older, I started to realize, “Holy shit. It is something that I can change my life about. I can use it to my advantage if I understand how to use it.”

We grow up and now kids get diagnosed, “You have ADHD. Throw him meds.” There are five-year-old kids getting diagnosed because they’re acting like they’re five. They’re putting them on stimulants because they’re acting like they’re five and that’s not necessarily the right thing to do. I’m not anti-med but I don’t necessarily think that should be the first line of defense. I discovered all the things I’ve done in my life whether it’s skydiving, Ironman triathlon, public speaking or anything. I’m training for the Ironman Kona World Championships. All those kinds of things generate dopamine, serotonin and adrenaline. Those three chemicals, along with a cannabinoid chemical, which is exactly what it sounds like, are all generated by the body and used to help you stay focused, keep you from getting distracted when you’re working on something, bring you joy or pleasure.

People with ADHD and different types of neurodiverse brains don’t make as much serotonin, adrenaline or whatever. For me, I learned new ways to get it. I have a prescription for ADHD medication but I rarely take it. I wake up first thing in the morning. I’m usually up at 3:30 AM or 4:00 AM. I’m on my bike or I’m outdoors running or something. That gives me the dopamine hit that I need to get through the morning and most of the time, through the day. The cool thing about being neurodiverse is that it allows you to think completely differently. It allows you to change how you’re thinking and to use your brain to your advantage.

The key is being able to do that and utilize that in such a way that you avoid the distractions while getting all the good stuff out of it. I’ve put rules into place for my life to allow me to do that everything from getting up early and going to sleep early. It’s the elimination of choice. I have two sides to my closet and they are labeled. One says office/travel T-shirt and jeans. The other side says speaking/TV and it’s button-down shirts, jackets and jeans. That’s it. My suits, vests and sweaters are all in my daughter’s closet. If I go in the closet, I’m like, “Now what should I wear? I remember that vest. Laura gave me that vest. I wonder how she’s doing. I should look her up.” Three hours later, I’m naked in the living room on Facebook and never left the house. You have to learn what works for you. That is neurodiversity.

If you’re looking at 15% to 25% of the world having ADHD or having some neurodiversity then what you’re looking at is companies and businesses needing to understand how to sell to these people. Also, how to market to these people and how to hire. The most creative people in the world have ADHD and are neurodiverse. If you want the most creative people working with you, you better learn how to hire them and give them an environment where they will thrive. I’m doing a lot of talking about that because it is a market that’s getting bigger and bigger.

I’d love to get your take on this because it’s a belief. I was diagnosed as a kid with dyslexia. For a long time, I thought that was a cross to bear when now at my age, I recognize it 1,000% as a blessing because I think and process differently. Once I learned how to use that to my advantage, it’s been an advantage for the balance of my life that I’ve been able to lean into once I knew that I processed shit differently than other people do.

I’ve also witnessed and learned in many years of being in this space working with entrepreneurs that 15% number is much higher as a percentage of those who are entrepreneurial. They tend to be entrepreneurial for a lot of reasons. One is because they are, for the most part, not going to conform well to the typical corporate structures. Two, that they often are the most creative, capable and innovative out there. We work with that every day. A lot of these folks are leading organizations. You talk about specifically the economy around it. What do these founders need to know about this gift that they have? How to use it? How to be aware of how others may perceive it?

People in their late 40s and other people as well, we’ve been told all our lives that this is a disability. We’ve been told that in a lot of ways that we’re broken. It’s ridiculously annoying because we’re not. You could argue that I’m broken but for 100 other reasons, not this one. The concept that this could be a gift is a story that needs to be told. Indeed, the hiring website and software, I keynoted their annual sales conference. It was the whole premise like, “These are the people you want to hire.” We have to flip that conversation because kids are still getting diagnosed with this. They’re still getting that letter to the parents, “It’s time to talk about this. We think your son needs to get diagnosed.”

It is a horrible way of looking at things. You don’t get diagnosed for good things. I’ve never gotten diagnosed with dating a supermodel. I’ve never gotten diagnosed for winning the lottery. We get diagnosed with these bad things and this is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s something that is once managed properly can be incredibly beneficial. I’m not saying there are downsides to it. A perfect example is Reddit has a subreddit called ADHD. When my book Faster Than Normal came out in 2017, I asked them if they wanted me to do an AMA. They said, “Absolutely not. ADHD is a disease. It’s debilitating. There is nothing good about it.” I’m like, “Whack jobs.” I want to do an AMA on all of Reddit and it was phenomenal. You got to stop thinking about it in these negative terms.

That’s so important because a lot of times it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you do. I remember as a kid being labeled as learning-disabled. I now consider myself learning-enabled. One of the greatest gifts I’ve had is that I can consume and synthesize more information than most. I just had to learn how to do it differently once I was given that. I see much of this whether it’s ADHD, dyslexia, or some form of neurodiversity, processes or internal mechanism wired in these entrepreneurs that make them look at life differently. A lot of people ask me, “Are entrepreneurs genuinely more risk-prone or risk-tolerant?” The answer that I’ve learned is no. They see risk differently. The average person sees risk in doing this and taking action. The entrepreneur sees risk in inaction and not doing it.

Many brilliant ideas have died on the side of the road because no one took the chance to do them. If I thought that every time I jump out of a plane with my parachute, I almost have 500 jumps. If I thought every time I jump I would die, I wouldn’t do it. For me, the risk is worth the reward. I’ve done my training. I know what I’m doing. The thing that I get from that is a lot more important. In my opinion, it’s well worth it. It’s interesting because I’ve had people say, “I can’t understand why the hell you skydive. What’s wrong with you?” I’m like, “That’s exactly why I do it.”

As we’ve proved, it’s easier to die in New York on the street than it is to die somewhere else. For me, it’s about understanding what works for me. There’s another big thing. This is something that a lot of kids need to learn is you have to stop caring what other people think. That was a hard one for me. You always want approval. There’s going to come to a point where it’s going to be hard to get because you have a lot of people who are always willing to judge you and you have to let that go. My daughter, parents and girlfriend are the only few people whose opinions I care about. Everyone else doesn’t matter.

When did you learn to let that go?

It’s hard. I can’t say I’ve fully let it go. There are still times when someone says something. It cuts but life is too short to waste time thinking about people you don’t know, who live on a free app, lives in your phone, in your pocket, think about you. It’s the best way to put it. At the end of the day, you just got to go.

Part of it comes with age and wisdom, too. I’m a lot better now than I ever was in terms of not caring or needing or seeking that external feedback and being able to self-check. It’s the same thing. The people closest to me in my life whose opinions and approval I always appreciate and their disapproval and challenge because it makes me better. Part of it was maturation because I sure wish that I had this level of ability to let that go in my 20s and 30s as I do in my 50s but I didn’t. I’m constantly trying to look back and go, “What could I have done differently to be better at that?” Introspection is one and building your internal narrative in a healthy way is another but part of it is a natural progression of wisdom and time.

Everything comes over time and it’s never going to be perfect. There are still moments where I still want to show the kids in junior high, “Look at where I am now.” After years of therapy, you’re able to put that away and be like, “That’s stupid,” because you’re wasting something great happening. Instead of enjoying that moment where it was great, you want to waste it on people you haven’t spoken to in 30 years. What’s the point? That took a long time but it’s getting there day by day. Everything’s day by day.

Everything’s imperfect. It’s comparing the mind. One of the things I recognized like getting beat over the head more than 1,000 times is the recognition. Every time I said, “When I achieve this,” but there’s always going to be somebody who has achieved more. There’s always going to be somebody who’s doing something better. It’s an insatiable appetite if that’s the way you live your life, trying to compare instead of just saying, “What shit matters to me? What do I want to accomplish?” Going out there and doing your best and not letting your fear or doubt, which are the two constant companions of every entrepreneur, limit you from doing those things.

I want to change topics here and dive into the customer experience because you talk and write about that a lot. More than anything else in this economy especially when you come to products and the way people engage with brands, that customer journey and experience are paramount to keeping the hard-fought customers you require. Before we dive into the questions coming across on that, share some of the best practices and things that you are passionate about on that topic.

The thing about customer experience is it’s hysterical. My favorite joke in the whole world is that two guys are out in the woods on a trail run and see a bear. They start to freak out because the bear sees them. They’re like, “It’s a bear. We’re going to die.” The second guy’s looking around. He finds a stick. The first guy leans down and tightens up his running shoes. The second guy is like, “What the hell is wrong with you? You can’t outrun a bear.” He said, “I just need to outrun you.” I’ve always loved that joke because the customer experience is so hard and bad as we look at it.

Think about your last flight, even pre-COVID. How bad was that? If you’ve got where you want to go, you didn’t crash on a mountain. You weren’t pulled for the TSA for an anal probe. You had the seat you wanted so you’re happy. That’s not a great flight. That’s just called a flight. If that’s where the bar is, the easiest way to understand the customer experience is I don’t need you to be great. I need you to suck slightly less.

It’s like the old Saturday Night skit. Lower the expectations.

Ours is so bad. I had to write a blog post explaining to the intern candidates why they shouldn’t ghost me even if they got a better job. It’s a small industry. The fact that even has to explain that is not hard. You just have to figure it out. If customer experience is easy, it is easy because all you have to do is to be a little bit better. Smile and answer the phones.

Outrun that one guy. What are they missing?

People don’t see customer experience as a profit center. They see it as a cost overrun. My premise has always been that it costs virtually nothing but it can generate so much revenue especially in this world of social. It is easy to generate revenue by being that slightly bit better. It’s amazing.

How do you know what customers want?

Ask them. Email them not from DoNotReplyOrWe’llKillYourChildren@Company.com. Send them an email, “I’m wondering what I can do.” The amount of response I used to get when I asked my audience what they wanted was over the charts. They would do whatever I wanted and just listen. When I’m on a plane, I see a giant thundercloud in front of me before we take off on the tarmac. It starts pouring and we’re not taking off, I’m sure that’s why. Until the pilot comes out on the PA and tells me, there’s still 1% of me to think we are being hijacked or a wing fell off or some shit. Talk. When you screw up, be transparent about it, own it and move on. Be brief and relevant. One of every two corporate homepages in America has a spelling and grammatical error on the homepage. Look to your left and your right, if it’s not them, it’s your ass. I don’t need rocket science. I don’t need you to be amazing.

Two things, one that you said resonates with me and I say this all the time is it’s about managing expectations. Sometimes, the best way to build a relationship with your customer is when you fail because you are going to fail.

We’re human beings. We’re going to make tons of mistakes. That’s what we do. It’s not about making mistakes. Seventy percent of companies that are starting to have customers who have a problem, when the problem is fixed, are more willing to come back and bring friends. I’m not suggesting you go screw things up and fix them to keep the customers but it does work that way. I’m not looking for greatness. I’m looking to be a little bit better than expected.

I’m somebody who tries to make this show for those reading actionable. How do you assess where you are being honest with yourself, where your brand is and where your company is? How do you determine what steps you need to take to improve? What advice?

Ask people what they’re saying. They will tell you. The feedback you can get is amazing if you don’t send an automated email. Be real. I used to run HARO. Every month, I’d send an email to everyone. I was sending 250,000 HAROs three times a day. I’d say, “What do you think of this? What do you think of that?” People tell me, “We like this. We don’t like that.” I’ve used that feedback. The cool thing about that is that when I use that feedback and someone gave me an idea and I implemented it, they come back and are like, “Holy shit. That’s the idea that I gave him. How cool,” and they become invested. They want to be invested in your company. Be slightly better.

Digging a little bit more into the customer experience. Asking them in a non-salesy way and then a non-automated way.

Reach out when you have nothing to sell and just say hi.

Stay top of mind and so forth. Can you think of any brands who are killing it, knocking it out of the park?

It’s Peloton. Full disclosure, I bought it in early March of 2020. It’s probably the best stock purchase I’ve ever made in my life. I got my first Peloton back in 2016. What I love about them is they take the time. They have 800,000 followers. They still take time to sit around on social and to respond. It’s not hard. They built this mentality of all together we rise. That’s what they’re doing. The premise that they want you to succeed. They know me as a 3:30 AM rider. When I have my daughter, I’m on the bike by 3:30 AM. She gets up around 6:00 to go to school, which means that I am out by 8:30 PM.

I’m on the bike and they know that. They know when you ride so I’m like this early morning riser. They love me for that. They stay in touch and reach out. I’ve seen them do that to me and people with absolutely no social profile so they care. Probably Four Seasons and all the big hotel chains do that as well. You’d be amazed. The small little companies too, there’s a company called PetPlate that delivers dog food. It reached out to me when they saw that I got Waffle. They’ve sent me some food. It’s the same thing. They follow-up, “How is Waffle doing?” It doesn’t take much. That’s the killer thing.

One of the questions coming in here is they must have read your bio. Rockstar of all things social media. What do I need to be doing in social media? You talked about one of them is just do things. Remember that social media is two-way. It’s not pushing but it’s also responding and reacting. What else are important things to building a good social profile either for your personal or business brand?

You firstly need to understand where your audience is. Everyone’s like, “What platform should I be on?” I’m like, “I don’t have a clue. I don’t know where your audience is.” If your audience is on Twitter, you should be on Twitter. Probably not, though. If your audience is on Facebook, LinkedIn or Snapchat, be where your audience is. Casey Stengel was asked how he got his players to win so many ball games. He goes, “We hit them where they aren’t.” You want to do the exact opposite thing. Hit them where they are because where they are is where you want to be.

You have to ask your audience. That’s number one. Being real to them. Posting stuff online and not selling all the time. I see all these accounts that are nothing but sales pitches. Post interesting stuff. Post things that people find interesting. Post things that people want to see and like to see and they’ll come back to you. I’m not saying that a brand needs to be a human because a brand is not a human. A brand is a brand but you can find that middle ground that works for you. It was like, “I like to keep my professional life and personal life separately.” Good luck with that. That doesn’t exist anymore. There is absolutely no difference between professional and personal anymore.

If you don’t believe that, get arrested for blowing lines of coke with a stripper at 3:00 AM and see if that doesn’t affect your business or get political and see if that doesn’t affect your business. There is no rant. There is no line between personal and professional so I understand what my audience is. I understand the things that I’m going to chat about and post about but it is rare, if ever, that I post something without thinking. I’ve thought it through because, in some ways, I am a public figure. As such, I make sure that I am keeping my voice as expected. Having an audience is a privilege. It’s not a right. You could argue it’s exactly like wearing spandex.

I trained for the Ironman. On the day of the Ironman, I’ve earned the right to wear spandex. I’ve worked my ass off. Hopefully, I’ve dropped a few pounds. Once the race is over, someone came up to me, gave me my medal and said, “Congratulations. Now please put on this baggy T-shirt.” I get that. We don’t all have the right to wear spandex. I never earned that privilege for the day. It’s the same thing with having an audience. Having an audience is a privilege, not a right.

I want to talk about this because we talk a lot about the fact that, as you build that audience, with it comes influence. That’s the natural outcropping of building an audience. What you do with that influence is important but it has to be authentic and real. Our brands are impacting what we believe is around 50 million consumers who subscribed to being natural leaning or organic leaning type of consumers. That’s a big potential impact. We talked about that when the election was coming. We talked about that around social justice. How do you show up? How do you use that influence? How do you choose when to use it and when not to?

I don’t so much because I’m not using my influence as much as I do. I’m just trying to do the right thing. Westin Hotels reached out and said, “We’re reopening in Times Square. Do you want to take your daughter on a staycation and share it with your audience?” I get those types of things a lot. My first question is, “Will this benefit my audience?” If someone came out and said, “Do you want to show up? We’ll send you a four-wheel all-terrain vehicle.” I go, “I live in Manhattan. I don’t go off-roading. I don’t do any of that. I don’t have an audience that does either. That wouldn’t help.”

Being authentic to your audience means passing up a lot of things because they’re not right. It’s a waste of time. Having an audience is a privilege, not a right so you have to be wary of their time. I know my audience is a lot of business travelers and are parents with kids who might want to take a staycation. Staying in Westin overnight, you’re giving them some props and they’re still there. That’s perfect. I love creating content. That was a lot of fun. One of the big ways to understand it is understanding your audience and the stuff you’re creating has to be beneficial to them.

Here’s a question, which is a cool one and it fits in perfectly. Were you intentional in wanting to build an audience? Did you put out content that mattered to you and the audience came?

It’s probably a little bit of both. I went to a high school of performing arts where I was a local major. I was in dramatic arts as well. I come from that background. I love being on stage. I love talking to people. The irony is I love talking to 10,000 people on stage but I hate talking to 5 people at a dinner party. I’m the most introvert-extrovert you’ll ever meet in your life. I love having an audience. I love sharing and teaching what I know. Having an audience is a great privilege and enjoyable so I wanted to create great content and the audience came.

I completely get what you said. I would rather be in front of a podium on a stage speaking to hundreds than have that one-to-one or one-to-two awkward social conversation. I find that to be difficult. I probably suck at both but at least one of them, I enjoy more. Another question here is coming in around how to engage with your audience. How do you do that? How do you not just build an audience but keep that audience and build a real relationship with them? That’s something I see that you do well.

One of the big ways to do that and to understand your audience is to listen to them. Having a mouthpiece, talking and having people to follow me could all go away. A lot of it is listening. I had an ex-girlfriend once from the South who had a wonderful mother and had that Southern accent. I was talking about something. I’m making too much noise. She said something like, “Sure the good Lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason so we can listen twice as much as we talk,” which was a Southernly nice way of saying, “Peter, will you shut the fuck up?” I love people from the South. They’re calm. They say bless your heart, which means you’re a goddamn hater. It’s awesome. She was right. A lot of people who speak, have these platforms on social would be amazed at reading some of their followers’ content first before they post. It would radically change them. They don’t do that and they should.

Listening is a gift and it’s also a fantastic tool because you’re going to shape your message around that. We talked about this when George Floyd was murdered. A lot of people were like, “How the hell do I show up on social media? What do I post? I don’t want to look like I’m following, I’m a bandwagon or I don’t want to not be here.” My comment to them was, “Listen. Ask a question. Talk about it. Admit that you don’t know. Engage.”

It goes back to being a little bit better. When this all started, I realized we’re going to be on Zoom for quite some time. I have a background in photography so I took an extra camera and mounted it. I made it my Zoom camera, TV camera, computer camera. I have a nice depth of field. I’m well lit. I have a broader persona than just the guy staring at the front of the camera on his laptop. The reason for that is because if everyone is doing that then the little five minutes I did here to set up this camera means that when everything else being equal, CNN is going to call me because I look a little bit better. It’s those kinds of things. What can you do to be slightly better that no one does?

Asking that question, how do you guard against complacency? Slightly better is ever-changing. I’m asking you that question directly. You might be slightly better now but you’re not going to be slightly better 3 or 6 weeks from now as some other people catch up. How do you guard against that?

The only person you can be better than is yourself yesterday. If you keep doing it, that every day you figure out ways to be better than yesterday, you will be better than everyone else. The race is long. It is a marathon. It is not a sprint. You’re not there with everyone else. Your goal is to create a better version of yourself every day. The nice thing about doing that is it prevents you from sitting there going, “I’m not as good as anyone else.” Be better than yourself. I’m not going to win. I know that but maybe I’ll do a little better than my last Ironman. I doubt it’s Hawaii and it’s in front of a volcano but whatever. I feel like I should preface this. I am doing Ironman on behalf of Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. In memory of a few people in my life who have lost to blood cancers, Shankman.com/ironman. If I provided any value to anyone reading, a little donation would help a lot of people. They’re changing how they’re eradicating blood cancer.

Are you in training?

They accept six people to go to Kona every year. For some reason, they accepted my ass. I’m going on behalf of Leukemia & Lymphoma. My goal is to raise $125,000.

I’ve had TNT along for lots of years. We’ve done lots of events with them. We put a little cycling team together to race around Lake Tahoe and we raised over $250,000 doing that. It’s a cause near and dear. A couple of questions coming in here on entrepreneurialism as somebody who’s had three successful startups and exits. Everyone reading here is on the edge of their seat going, “What the hell do I need to do to be somebody who gets to the finish line in a difficult space?” What are some of the things that you learned on those rides to do and not do?

Stop comparing yourself to everyone else. Focus on improving a little bit every day and understand that people who are not entrepreneurs think that entrepreneurship is a line that goes like this. Not entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is this and that then this and somewhere back there then all of a sudden it’s 1982 and then up there. Eventually, maybe you get to where you thought you wanted to be and it turns out that wasn’t it at all but you’ve had a great ride.

If you told me graduating college that I’d have started and sold three companies in the social and internet space markets, they’d thought you’re crazy. “You’re supposed to be in California shooting for Playboy.” At the end of the day, if you have more days than not where you don’t see the difference between work and fun, you’re doing well. Focus on enjoying what you do and everything else tends to fall into place. The only other thing I would say, entrepreneurship is a lot of fun but it’s lonely as hell. If you don’t have a support team whether that’s a mastermind group or accountability group or a couple of friends who understand what you’re going through and not necessarily your spouse. It isn’t necessarily that person or your partner because if they’re not an entrepreneur, they don’t get it.

Remember, I was dating once and she calls like, “What’s up?” It was a Thursday and I’m working. I’m like, “I’m at the W Hotel waiting for a client.” She’s like, “It must be nice. Why don’t you do some work?” I’m like, “Bitch, I’m working three times harder than you.” She didn’t get it. I don’t begrudge her working in a cubicle for a company. That’s what kept her safe. Not for people like us but it is lonely, scary and crazy sometimes. Makes sure someone talks to you. Make sure someone reaches out to you. I’ve lost a couple of friends to suicide but all of them were entrepreneurs. It shouldn’t have happened.

We’ve talked about this all the time. It is a super isolating thing if you allow it to be. You have two constant companions in that journey on your shoulders. One is fear and one is doubt. You’re always wondering. It’s tough until building a community of collaborators, people that you can work and talk with. The other thing that you said that resonates and sticks with me is entrepreneurialism, in my opinion, and from what I got from you sharing this isn’t about the destination. It’s about the journey. If you only celebrate the end of success and don’t enjoy the incredible ride that you’re on, all the learning, opportunity and adventure and the heartache, stress and shit that comes with it then you’re missing the beauty of being an entrepreneur. It doesn’t matter if you get to that exit or not. You’ve missed out on the true wealth of the experience.

Enjoy it. It’s all we got so choose what you want to do and have fun with it.

Any parting things that you would like to share with those reading?

The two best pieces of advice I ever got is if you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you. I always love that one because it’s so true. If people don’t get you, find a better circle. If you don’t like where you are, move. You’re not a tree. Those two pieces of advice have gotten me through some tough times.

Looking back, what’s been the lesson you know now that you wish you learned earlier in the journey?

It’s a couple of them. Most people aren’t out to get you. They’re out to better themselves. That’s number one.

How does that intrinsic motivation differ? How does that change the way you perceive that?

It’s not taking shit personally. Chances are they’re not going out for you. They’re out to better themselves. Sometimes, that comes at your expense. Somebody is like, “He wanted to get me.” He didn’t. He wanted to improve himself. You happen to be in the line of fire. The second thing is, be careful who you hire. You’re going to look for people to hire who you think is incredible and they’re going to do all the work. No one’s ever going to be as passionate about the business you’re building as you are. If you’re looking to hire someone thinking that they’ll have that same passion and you get them to break, you’re probably more than likely going to be out of luck. Find someone who’s passionate and who’s willing to do the job but understand that, at the beginning at least, you can’t just walk away. Things have to change. That’s important to understand.

If people want to learn more, want to get ahold of you, etc., how do they do it? Share the link so people can contribute to your Kona.

My entire life is I’m @PeterShankman on all the socials. I have a group of young kids who I take for pizza once every few months. They clue me in on what hot apps are coming down the pipeline so I get my name before anyone else. My email is Peter@Shankman.com. My website is Shankman.com. Linktr.ee/petershankman has all those links. The Ironman link I’d be grateful to anyone willing to throw a few bucks to Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, Team In Training, Shankman.com/ironman will take you to their site.

Peter, thanks for doing this with me. I appreciate it. I hope as the adrenaline and dopamine wear off that the effects aren’t lingering and that you’re back at it tomorrow.

I’ll live. Thank you. It was a lot of fun.

Thanks for joining. Take care.

Important Links

• Peter

• Help a Reporter Out

• Faster Than Normal – podcast

• Faster Than Normal

• Indeed

• DoNotReplyOrWe’llKillYourChildren@Company.com

• Peloton

• PetPlate

• Leukemia & Lymphoma Society

• Shankman.com/ironman

• @PeterShankman – Twitter

• Peter@Shankman.com

• Linktr.ee/petershankman

About Peter Shankman

Peter Shankman is the top keynote speaker in marketing, brand building, social media and customer service. The New York Times has called Peter Shankman “a rock star who knows everything about social media and then some.” He is a 5x best-selling author, entrepreneur and corporate in-person and virtual keynote speaker, focusing on customer service and the new and emerging customer and neuroatypical economy.  With three startup launches and exits under his belt, Peter is recognized worldwide for radically new ways of thinking about the customer experience, social media, PR, marketing, advertising, ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and the new Neurodiverse Economy.

In addition to his passion for helping people and companies find success, some of Peter’s highlights also include:

• Founder of HARO – Help A Reporter Out, which became the standard for thousands of journalists looking for sources prior to being acquired three years after launch

• The ShankMinds Breakthrough Network, an elite, online mastermind of thought leaders, business experts, and change-makers

• Faster than Normal – The Internet’s #1 podcast on ADHD, focusing on the superpowers and gifts of having a “faster than normal brain,” which has helped thousands of people all around the world realize that having a neuroatypical brain is actually a gift, not a curse

Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! tigbrands.com/tig-talks/