Thanks to proper information dissemination and awareness, going vegan these days has been well-accepted by many. Now, it is about having a healthier diet and fighting for issues that truly matter. Kathy Freston joins Elliot Begoun to share her own vegan journey that inspired her to pursue a life purpose way bigger than her. She delves into her work as an activist for plant-based diet, animal welfare, global warming, and even proper food packaging. Kathy also talks about the contents of her book, 72 Reasons to Be Vegan, to highlight how the knowledge about this way of life can resonate with vegans and omnivores alike.

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How Going Vegan Can Bloom From A Healthy Diet To Activism With Kathy Freston

Before I start and introduce our guest, which I’m super excited about and looking forward to a great conversation, just a light housekeeping. This show is all about your questions. We want you to dictate the rabbit holes we decide to go down and the information that is salient to you. The best way to do that is to use the Q&A box. The other thing I want to mention as well is a reminder that the Hirshberg Entrepreneurship Institute is going to be virtual this 2021 and is going to be May 5th through 7th. If you are interested in presenting a case study or pitching in front of a cohort of pretty amazing investors, please go to the Hirshberg Entrepreneurship Institute website and submit your application and plan on attending.

It’s something that I’ve been supporting and participating in for some time. I think Gary is an amazing champion of the industry. The people that he will have to join are people like Walter Robb, who’s the former Co-CEO and Chairman of Whole Foods, Bob Burke and Corinne Shindelar, the former President of INFRA, Betsy McGann and Andy Whitman. They are an amazing group of people who are all there to help coach you and give you advice. This is not a promo. It’s just something that I’m passionate about and wants to encourage everybody to do.

I would love to welcome Kathy here and ask her to introduce herself. We’re going to dive in and talk about diet and the impact diet has on not only human health but on planetary health and animal welfare, and maybe how to have that conversation with people in a way that’s approachable and makes room for other schools of thought and opinions. Kathy, take a minute to introduce yourself and give everyone your amazing background. Thanks so much for joining.

Thanks. It’s so nice to meet you virtually. You’re doing great things in the world. I love that we can have this conversation because you are out there making the changes. Here’s to you. I grew up in Doraville, Georgia, which is a small city. I was a Southern girl and like any other Southern girl growing up in my neighborhood, I ate chicken fried steak and buckets of ribs. My dad threw a steak on the grill on Sundays. I never thought anything about it. I thought I was a healthy girl. My mom was a good mom and fed us well. If I went out with friends, we had fun eating pizza with sausage. My protein smoothie growing up was some whole milk with a raw egg and some fruit blended up. I didn’t die of salmonella. I didn’t think twice about it.

I grew up this way. I ended up leaving Georgia, moving eventually to New York and started teaching guided meditations to people who are going through a hard time in their lives, whether it was a cancer diagnosis, a breakup or they wanted some help to shift their mindset. Part of that shift was doing a deep dive on what the obstacles were and becoming more awake and aware of our shadows, what our internal truth is and how to move forward out of the places that held us back. I began writing about relationships, spiritual work and working in a meaningful way in the world. I started thinking that I had no awareness of food. That this is something I engage in three times a day. Obviously, I’m eating. I never looked under the hood of where my food comes from. I had virtually no awareness or certainly no awakeness around food.

I had that in my mind. I went to the mail one day and there was some brochure from an animal organization. It was a cow being dragged to slaughter. It was jarring and horrible. It lodged in my mind. Over the next few days, I remembered that brochure. One day, I was petting my dog, Lotsey. I was rubbing her belly. She was on her back and kicking up her legs. I loved the way she smiles because you know your dog or cat when they are happy or when they’re anxious. I thought, “I love this dog so much.” I love animals so much.

This voice inside of my head said, “If you love animals so much, why are you eating them?” It was that moment of like the voice of conscience. I did think of an experiment when I was sitting there with her. I started picturing my dog, Lotsey, who I know intimately. I know when she’s upset, what upset her, how to soothe her, and when she’s happy. I started picturing her in a slaughterhouse line. I would know how she would shake, shutter, drool and be terrified. I know that I would do anything in this world to save her from that experience. I thought that I feel this way for my dog because I know my dog. I know her well.

I thought, “If I knew that cow who’s going down that slaughter line or if I knew that pig or that chicken, I’m sure I would have the same feeling. I would do anything in my power to stop this.” I thought, “Kathy, if that’s the way you feel, why in the world are you continuing to buy the end product of that experience?” At that moment, I decided, “I would love to be someone who doesn’t eat animals.” I did not have any idea how I would do it because I grew up eating everything and not thinking twice about it. I decided, “I don’t know how I’m going to do it, but I’m going to hold this as my intention. I’m going to nudge myself forward. I’m going to figure it out.”

I had this in my mind and realized, “I’m going to die an early death because everyone knows you need animal protein to survive and thrive. I’m going to have no energy. I’m probably going to put on a few pounds because God knows all those carbs.” I thought, “For the animals, I have to do it. I have to sacrifice all these things.” As I was leaning into it and exploring different kinds of food, I started doing a deep dive on the research and feeling much better about my decision. I saw that the people who lived the longest in the world in the places called the Blue Zones eat primarily a plant-based diet. They live a decade longer generally. They have the most concentrated areas of centenarians from all over the world.

In fact, I might live longer and that complex carbohydrates weren’t a problem. I started losing a few pounds that I could have stood to lose. I started getting more energy. All of this happened as I leaned forward and started exploring the grocery aisles. I started looking into different kinds of recipes that were plant-based. I started changing things up at home. Over the course of a little over a year, I became fully vegan. That is something I could have never imagined as a kid. I was a diehard for anything with meat, dairy and eggs. I remember thinking, “Anything that swam, ran or flew was something that I wanted to eat.” Now I think, “What’s up with that?”

How many years ago was that now? How many years have you been vegan?

I’ve been vegan for sixteen years. That was probably 17.5 years ago when I started leaning in. It was a different world back then. I didn’t know anybody who was vegan. I knew a few vegetarians. There were a couple of restaurants in New York that were pretty good, but it wasn’t like the abundance of food that’s available now.

My take on this is I am vegan too, but my story is different. I originally came first to vegetarianism and then became a vegan mainly to help control weight. I always had a lifelong struggle with weight. I first came to it by accident because I found it ironically through mindfulness and my Buddhist practice. I started realizing, “If I’m causing no harm, how can I justify this?” That was something that clicked and that was when I first moved to vegetarianism. When I moved fully vegan, it was first the science and the nutrition, which is overwhelmingly favorable for this diet. I struggled off and on. I said, “This time, I’ve got to insulate myself a bit more. I’m going to learn more about the impact not only on my own health but on the environmental health and the animal health.” That became fantastic insulators.

That’s what’s exciting. You go in one door, not expecting all these other doors to open. I went in it through the animal sentience door and then I fully expected to suffer in my health. In fact, the opposite happened. You go a little bit farther and then the environmental door opens. It’s like, “The way that I’m eating is not only good for me and the animals, but it’s also good for the environment.” It’s one of those things that the momentum starts building and you start finding other reasons that this is a positive thing and it snowballs.

The vast majority of people here are entrepreneurs in the natural product space. Some of them are the leaders and the founders of plant-based brands and some of them are not. Some of them are just trying to build better-for-you alternatives. Others are in the keto space. Others are in the paleo and some in the autoimmune protocol. It’s all over. They’re all different forks in the road trying to get to the same destination, which is improved health or people who improve the climate and the environment for the planet.

One of the things I said to you is that in your book, which is 72 Reasons to Be Vegan, I thought it was super approachable because I sometimes am reluctant to out myself or use the term vegan. The thought is that there’s an agenda behind it, a radical nature to it or an unwillingness to see other people’s paths. I will fully admit that, in my belief, it is the healthiest diet for people, the planet and animals, but I’m also a realist. I recognized that not everybody in the world is going to be a vegan. We’re all going to have to be able to play well together in the sandbox. How do you have that conversation? Because in the book, I felt it was not preachy. You weren’t on a pedestal. You weren’t looking down upon those who don’t. You were just trying to have a good nature and approachable way with some humor to let people know the facts so they can make their own determination with no judgment.

That’s the spirit of how we wrote this book. It is with respect to people as individuals, and that they are going to make their own decisions for themselves. I would never ever take it upon myself to tell someone how or what they should eat. It’s not my business. I totally respect someone’s process. This book was compiled because we wanted to put out all the reasons, nothing overlapping. Some of them are fun like, “Why it’s better for your sex life?” Some of them are more serious like, “How it affects climate change to eat this way?” Some of them are just all about health. I’m so not interested in converting anybody or winning anyone over. My job is, “Here’s the information in a very bottom-lined way. Here are the sources if you want to go deeper. This is the scoop.”

A lot of people have heard about veganism, plant-based, keto or paleo, and it’s confusing. The science is muddy. You could see it one way. You could see it another way. Here’s everything all in one place about this lifestyle and then you can see. I’ll take some of this. I am interested in climate change. I am interested in a lower BMI. I do have skin issues, so this is interesting to me. Take what you want and form an opinion of what is right for you. The reason I approached it this way is because that’s the way that would work for me.

If somebody came screaming at me, telling me what I should do and why don’t I see it a certain way, I would reject the messenger 100%. The message is the messenger. For me, this lifestyle is about kindness, awareness, building bridges and making the world better. How does that come across with my messages? I want to be kind. I want to be a bridge-builder. I want to gently educate if someone is interested and curious about it. I’m hoping that this way of talking has appealed to me and that it will also appeal to other people.

I’m not just saying this to give the book a plug, but I mean this sincerely. If somebody were to ask me, “Why are you vegan?” or “What should I know?” this is the book I would feel comfortable recommending for them to read.

Thank you for that.

This is not going to be holier-than-thou. I have one question. 72 Reasons to Be Vegan, why 72? I know you have more because I saw some of them on Facebook and Instagram.

We went until it was done. That’s the honest truth. We sketched out all the reasons and we didn’t want anything to overlap. We didn’t want redundancy. We also don’t want to be clever and cutesy and say, “100 reasons or 10 reasons.” We wanted it to genuinely go as far as it seems like a reasonable picture of all the reasons. We also wanted to keep it very brief. No chapter is longer than a page and a half. Usually, they’re about a page. It’s easy on the eyes. I don’t know about you, but I read so much every day. I think people read so much every day between newspapers, journals, posts, newsletters and blogs. We’re inundated with so many things to read that we wanted to keep it brief and it came out to 72.

I love the fact that the chapters were super brief because at my age, my goal is how many chapters can I read or can I finish the chapter before I fall asleep? I’m safe in this one. I know I can get to the end of the chapter. I want to take the conversation up a bit because as much as I would love to sit here and go on all of this more deeply specific to vegan, I want to be mindful of the audience who is here. The reason we have this is to talk to the entrepreneurs in this space. You are very active in talking to people about the impact of their diet. In the natural product space, that’s what we’re trying to do as well. We’re trying to leverage the reality and empower the consumer who is becoming more of a stakeholder in their own health. They’re becoming more aware, conscious, educated and prescriptive about what they put in and on their bodies. In the interactions that you have and the conversations that you’re having out in the world, what are you seeing? Are you seeing more and more people trying to self-educate and become vegan?

Yes. First of all, there’s a 600% rise in people who identify as vegans in the last couple of years. This is a trend that’s going up. I don’t think it’s even a trend. I think it’s a monumental shift of what’s happening. There’s so much awareness now with every younger generation rising up and becoming consumers. They grew up seeing things online. They know what’s happening with climate change. Now, they’re getting it in school. Some of them are panicked, angry and incredulous. Look at Greta Thunberg. It’s like, “Are you kidding me? This is the world we are living in? What’s going on?” They’ve made the connection between what they eat and what’s happening environmentally, not only with climate change but with the water supply, land, biodiversity of crops, degradation of soil and all those things.

They’re aware of this stuff. They’re also watching that statistically. Americans, the age of mortality has gone down for the first time in many decades. They’re concerned about seeing their siblings who are getting type 2 diabetes or heart disease at such a young age. You have this awareness and activism that’s fueled by anger like, “This is up to us.” There’s this rise in awareness. At the same time, there’s a rise in accessibility to plant-based foods and restaurants that are vegan. There’s no longer this vibe that you’re fringy if you’re a vegan. There’s this intersection of awareness and accessibility to good foods between Beyond Meat and Impossible, Kite Hill yogurt and So Delicious ice cream, Miyoko’s cheese. It’s like you’re not missing out on the things that you grew up with in your early years. It’s exploding.

You can talk about health. That’s why Gene and I included both terms vegan and plant-based in the title because they’re very different things. Plant-based is someone who is interested in changing their diet for their health. Either they’re an athlete who wants to recover faster, build strength and have more endurance, and plant-based answers those things, or they have a diagnosis that they want to deal with through food. Vegan is more of a lifestyle. It encompasses ethical concerns like the environment and animal sentience. They might even want to take it further. The book is not about anything except food. People who lean into veganism, become vegan and become more passionate about it may want to give up leather or change their consumer habits and other ways. The book encompasses all of those things.

It’s a matter of where we are in the world now. It’s no joke what’s happening with global hunger, climate change and how that’s going to affect mass migrations, and job loss because crops are failing with drought and everything. All of this stuff is coming to a head and people can connect the dots. They’re also seeing behind-the-scenes slaughterhouse videos and that’s super disturbing. We didn’t have that many years ago. We didn’t have that kind of access to seeing what happens to animals as they become our food.

I was on Oprah once and they had somebody going into a very “humane” slaughterhouse that was designed so that the animals don’t panic as much. That was the best-case scenario of this slaughterhouse. It backfired on the company that wanted to show, “Look how humane it is. We’ve gone out of our way to comfort the animals as they meet their death.” Because it was so widely viewed, people were like, “The animals are hung up by their legs and their hooves are clipped off. It was a gruesome thing, even if it was at its most humane.” All this access to what happens across the board, people are shifting.

I’ve got a couple of things to add or say there. One is I do think we’ve done an amazing job as the food industry of disconnecting the source from what we see in the store. It’s not something I’m proud of. You see a nice, beautiful piece of meat in clear wrapping and we call it beef. We don’t say cow. All those kinds of things disassociate that. As a more urbanized society, we’re further away from where and how our food is grown and made. That holds true with plant-based. One of the things you said there was one of the most interesting and better explanations I’ve ever heard in terms of the nuanced difference between plant-based and vegan. Thank you.

You can be plant-based but not plant-exclusive. It’s interesting to think about as those are the people who are coming to it from a dietary standpoint and a vegan from a lifestyle standpoint. I would say if I were to just look at myself, I started down that road of plant-based and became vegan as the other elements of it became as important as the diet there. Bobbi has a great question for you. Bobbi is the Cofounder of a pretty cool vegan brand called Read The Ingredients, which is a great product, “Kathy, as a result of your soft sell in your explanation of the reasons to be plant-based, do you hear from any of your audience that you did impact their decision to change their diet or lifestyle?”

I hear about it all the time. I get notes on Instagram on how people shifted and how they wish they got it before, and that they have some sadness about how long it took them. I get that because I had that macho thing about me. I was like, “Yes, I’ll take some paté. Bring it on.” I’m a steak eater. I like a steak in a martini. There’s this thing that breaks when we let ourselves look at something, the whole specter of the food that we’re eating that changes. A lot of people wished they had done it years earlier. I get those kinds of notes all the time that one person in the family goes that way, and then they bring the other people in their family, and how much better they all feel as a group. That’s cool.

How to talk to people in general when it comes to dietary and lifestyle beliefs around food? One of the crazy moments that we’re facing societally is this tribalization and confirmation bias. If you’re a plant-based vegan person, you are listening to shows, reading books, and watching videos and documentaries that reinforce your belief system. If you are a keto follower, it’s the same thing. There are plenty of great documentaries, books, science, etc. There’s probably no other aspect other than some of the more divisive things like politics, where we’re more tribal. Our self-identity is more tied to what we eat, what we do, how we wear, what we were and what’s our consumer behavior. What recommendations would you make for people? We’re an audience who’s diverse here. We’re going to be propagating different products into the marketplace and trying to talk to the tribes. Part of the thing that we’re going to need to do to grow businesses is to be able to cross over and at least be able to engage people outside of that tribe in the conversation.

That’s a great question that could be discussed over all kinds of differences, political, religious. People at their core are very much the same. We want to be heard, witnessed, respected and appreciated for who we are. When you approach someone with that in mind and you are respectful, if I’m talking to someone, I want to hear what they say. I am genuinely curious. If I’m genuinely curious and listening with my full attention, I hear what their concerns are. A lot of times, people are locked into what they believe because you have to shore up and not let anything in. It’s like a defensiveness that comes more deeply out of fear.

If you are talking to someone with kindness and respect, there’s an opening. I never ever tried to convert anybody. It’s not even a good use of my time. I am interested in talking to someone if they are curious and want to know something or ask me something. I don’t think trying to go out there and get customers who are not interested is worthwhile. I think that people are drawn. It’s like attraction rather than promotion. If you are healthy, kind and respectful, that is going to attract interest in whatever it is that you are selling. In my case, you could say I’m selling a lifestyle or a way of eating.

There are bridges to be built. I know a lot of vegans make fun of people who say, “What about protein? Where do you get your protein?” I was like, “I eat children.” I respect people when they have a question because I had those questions too. I wanted to know, “What about my protein? Where am I going to get my protein?” I’ve worried about carbs because we’ve all heard that carbs are bad. I respect someone’s concern. Personally, I think of myself as an activist. As an activist, I want to genuinely answer their questions in a respectful manner.

Where do I get my protein? I want to let you know that there’s a certain amount of protein that we need and don’t need. We’ve been told that we need all this extra protein. This is what the American Dietetic Association says about protein. I get it from legumes, beans and lentils. A cup of lentils has 17 grams of protein. If I’m eating a big bowl of lentil soup, I’m probably having 3 or 4 cups in there. That’s a whole lot of protein. One egg only has 6 grams of protein. I will talk about the things that they’re interested in. If they’re curious and want to go farther, then I’ll keep talking. It’s with respect and coming up with the answers that they want to know about.

There are a couple of points. I agree with everything you’ve said. One of the things you said is, “If there’s interest, you keep talking, but you just don’t keep talking if there isn’t.” Because sometimes you start having this conversation and you can tell people are checking out. That’s okay. One of the things I love is when people ask me questions. I love the question that I can’t answer or don’t know because it forces me to go look into it. I say this to our kids. They’re all grown now, but I still say it to them. I still believe that I have some input in their lives. What I want from them is to have good, strong opinions. I just want them to hold them loosely enough that if they find out they’re wrong, they make room.

I look back at some of the things that I believed in deeply around diet, health and the environment and now see how wrong they were. If I didn’t allow myself that room to be wrong, then I don’t grow. There’s a lot going on and a lot is changing. I get quick questions on this all the time. I think it’s having that conversation openly, honestly and when you don’t know, you don’t know. Fernando has an interesting question and he said it first with a comment, “I don’t like it when a product is marketed as gluten-free when it is already naturally gluten-free. Do you think there’s any value for customers in labeling a naturally vegan product as a vegan? Would it be seen as cynical?

It’s very useful. It’s useful for me. I was in the store the other day and I was looking for some granola. It’s like you have to go deep into the ingredients to see if there’s whey in there. For me, I don’t want to have whey. I saw that it was labeled vegan and I was very grateful for that. Sometimes I’m looking at a salad dressing that looks creamy and I can’t tell, “Is it vegan or is it not vegan?” The label vegan makes a big difference for me. If you’re talking about rice, beans or something like that, then that’s a gratuitous label and that doesn’t make sense.

I am often asked about gluten, caffeine, sugar and oil. All of those things have nothing to do with being vegan or plant-based. However, a lot of people think that it does. It’s useful because sometimes people think, “You’re not allowed to have sugar if you’re vegan.” I was like, “Sure, you can. That has nothing to do with being vegan.” If it says on the cupcake “vegan,” it’s useful. Gluten-free, I know a lot of bread when they’re gluten-free do have egg whites in them. It’s helpful for me when I see a label that says vegan. I can shortcut the whole deep read on the ingredients.

If it’s a one-ingredient item that’s obvious. You don’t need the vegan sticker on an eggplant. It’s amazing when people make lifestyle or diet choices. Oftentimes they make it without a lot of knowledge, education or information. They just make it emotionally, “Here’s something. I read something. I’m going to do this.” They need our help as an industry to try to educate them and help them make good choices. The challenge of that and I’m going to get some hate mail from this. It’s why I’m so proud of the natural product space that we’re in, and why I’m thrilled when I hear stats like $18 billion of market share moved from the top 25 CPG companies. It is because the real big food in ag is what propagates some of the beliefs that we have.

When I get asked, “Where do you get your protein?” I know that that is likely the beef council, the health board and dairy that have institutionalized that thinking. The same holds true with labels. Be honest and transparent in serving the consumer who’s trying to self-educate in this confusing landscape, with as much honesty as you can as a brand. It is not only good business but it’s being a good steward. We have questions here, “When you’re shopping for food, whether that’s online or brick and mortar, are you conscious of what might draw you in and give you a second look at packaging? Do you even look at packaged foods?”

I look at the packaging. I resent too much packaging. That makes me angry when there’s too much plastic and too much stuff build up more than it has to be. I think that someone who is in this natural products space is considering the rest of the world and the planet. I appreciate it when I see smart packaging. It is something that catches my eye. I don’t want something that’s too homegrown because then I wonder like, “Have they done their work on getting this to taste good or the best quality.” Packaging means a lot to me, for sure.

It’s important in terms of capturing. Is there any element that makes you look or gravitate towards a package and thinking it through the lens of you as an activist eater?

I am an activist eater. Information is important to me. When I see how many grams of protein it has, how many grams of fiber, how much sugar is on, or if it’s vegan, I’m loud and proud. I’m one of those people who has never been afraid of the V-word. I know a lot of people for a while. I don’t think it’s the case anymore, but people shied away from using the V-word, vegan. I appreciate seeing it because it’s informative. I don’t have a lot of time at the grocery store. I don’t want to spend too much time trying to figure something out. I appreciate being told what’s in here. What’s the scoop? What kind of grams? Is it gluten-free? Is it vegan? I’m set.

It’s about authenticity and transparency. Trying to change a consumer’s mind on the shelf is very difficult, but giving the consumer the real information they need to make an informed, educated decision is going to win them over. The rest of it is, “Do you have enough appeal and ability to make that package work to drive their attention?” They’re looking at 3 feet of shelf every three seconds. It’s very much a reptilian brain that’s making you do that. Here’s another cool question and I love talking about this topic. What’s your take on transition food, things like Beyond and Impossible?

I’m a huge fan. This is where I might diverge again from plant-based to vegan. Plant-based people tend to be very health-minded, so whole-food, plant-based. Basically, grains, beans, legumes, nut seeds, mushrooms. Vegan is just making sure it’s not from an animal. I lean toward having fun. For the most part, I’m pretty healthy during the day or the week. I want a burger and a martini at the end of the week and some French fries. I don’t care that it’s not perfectly healthy. I know I’m not eating a bowl of rice and beans, but I’m participating in the American tradition that I grew up with and I love it. I want to be with my friends, have sausage and pizza. It’s vegan cheese and vegan sausage. It’s fantastic.

It is a stepping stone into a lifestyle that helps people get comfortable with eating better and better. I always say, “Progress, not perfection.” That means we don’t have to eat a Buddha bowl all the time. We can eat this pizza or some sautéed sausage or whatever. The more we get into it, the more our bodies feel better. We start seeing better results. It’s like, “I’m going to tweak this. I’m going to go even healthier. I’m going to start moving away from the processed foods and more toward the healthier foods.” You can then be more discerning. I think it’s great.

I would be more in the camp of a plant-based for health, but that has more to do with being a food addict, needing that and staying away from the things that trigger me. I’m a huge fan because, at the end of the day, the people who are broadly consuming these items are not vegans. They’re omnivores. They’re making a decision to eat less meat or replace something. Kathy, I would love your take on this because I talk about this a lot. I don’t feel when we’re talking about the masses that we’re going to convert people from eating Pringles to kale chips. The real significant societal change in health and the environment comes from iterative steps. If we can get somebody instead of reaching for a Pringles to get a good Crisp chip and all-natural, the better. If we can get somebody to take every third hamburger that they grill in a month to make it a Beyond or Impossible, for millions of people, we’re going to do a lot more to promote overall health for both the planet and ourselves, then we would try to get the 6% or 7% of the people to do it.

For sure, Beyond, Impossible and a bunch of these companies that are non-animal meats do not care about vegans. They shouldn’t care about vegans because a lot of plant-based vegans are not going to eat that product anyway because they’re into more health. That is not their aim to feed vegans at all. They are there to feed omnivores who just want the taste of burgers. They’re providing this iterative burger that is better for the environment, better for the animals and maybe marginally better for your health. There’s no cholesterol. There’s a lot less saturated fat, but there’s just as much protein and iron.

I had a petition for McDonald’s to add a vegan burger on. It’s amazing the hate that I got from some vegan saying, “I would never step in that place. That’s evil.” Nobody cares if you’re going to go in there. You’re going to be sitting at home, eating your Buddha bowl anyway. This is not for people like you. It’s not for people like me. I’m probably not going to go to McDonald’s very often unless I’m on a road trip. This is for people who are going to go into McDonald’s anyway. They’re going to order a burger anyway. Why not give them a choice that is more humane, better on the earth, better on the body and it’s certainly good for the animals? It’s a step toward the better.

That’s how we reduced all of the things that are out there that have so much impact on the animals and environment. From rubbing the belly of your dog to becoming an activist, why the calling? Why the need or the want to share your thinking and voice, and be out there in front? What compelled you to do that?

I don’t think I looked for it. It came for me. Sometimes our purpose in life is revealed to us. When you’re around tapping your fingers at home like, “What can I do to have a meaningful life? I want to have a meaningful life.” You can’t think of it. It doesn’t happen. The choices I made along the way took me here to there, and then this thing happened. I wrote a little bit about conscious eating in a book that when I went on Oprah, all her producers said, “Do not talk about this because she was sued by the Cattlemen’s Association. It was a very hard thing that she went through and we don’t want to have this on the show.” I was like, “Okay, not a problem.”

Oprah being Oprah, she went straight there. She wanted to talk about it. There’s that moment in your life where you step into it and say, “I’ve prepared for this. I know my stuff on this.” We had a conversation and it caught fire. I was someone who wrote about relationships, spirituality and all this stuff, and then life kept asking me to step into this other thing. I became more passionate and more articulate in this part of life and that became my calling. It became what I do with my life. I am so grateful it happened, but I could have never looked for it and I would have never expected that this would happen.

In terms of overall coaching, a few takeaways for the entrepreneurs about how to engage in a conversation around diet and health, regardless of if they’re a plant-based brand or not. Any good concrete takeaway suggestions for them?

Authenticity, you said it before. Speak to someone like they are smart, capable and respected for who they are and what their choices are. When you talk to someone in that manner, they reciprocate and take you, your brand and your message seriously as well. The old days of the charisma, trying to sell someone and all the bullshit are over. People are craving a real, respectful conversation. When you engage with a consumer that way, it’s a win all around.

It’s not the quality of what you say. It’s the quality of how you listen. Branding is emotional. It’s not linear. You need to make room for that. Listening and being willing to hold other people’s opinions, just like you would as an individual, as a brand in that conversation is great. I’m going to do a plug for you because I feel the book earned it. If you’re reading this and thinking about trying to better understand what it would mean to be vegan or to become more plant-based, for example, my wife is not completely vegan, but she’s 90%. I love the adage of not letting perfect be the enemy of the good. Beyond the book 72 Reasons to Be Vegan, what other resources would you recommend to people who are trying to self-educate on all three facets, diet, environment and animal sentience?

Social media on Instagram is great. You can find great recipes and chefs who show you how to cook, doctors and scientists to talk straight about this stuff. I’m a big fan of Instagram. It’s a great place to find people, hashtags and places to eat around your city wherever you live. There are great documentaries out there for what you’re interested in. Google what you’re interested in and a documentary will come up. It’s also about community, finding a community and make it a kind community. If someone is shouting from the rooftop, it’s not your community. Find people who are genuinely kind and wanting to share information. Get into the exchange of that, become part of that community and open it up even further.

It made me think of one other thing. It’s something that I try to challenge myself to do on all the subjects and where I feel my opinions are a little bit stronger than others is not to become too insular. If I’m watching Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy and Forks Over Knives, I try to watch a documentary on keto or something else. For example, I’m reading the book Call of the Reed Warbler, which was recommended to me by Walter Robb. I’ve been making excuses not to read it. It’s about regenerative farming in Australia. It’s fascinating to me. It opens my eyes to the fact that there are better ways to do something out there. It’s imperfect but better. If your wish is to have more cross dialogue across different tribes, being willing to invest the time to understand the other thinking is worth it. Kathy, thank you so much for doing this with me. It was awesome. I appreciate that. Any other best ways to reach you?

Thank you so much for that, Elliot. It’s KathyFreston.com. You can find me on Instagram @KathyFreston.

Thanks, everyone for joining. We’ll see you next time. Have a great day.

Thank you so much.

Important Links

• Hirshberg Entrepreneurship Institute

• KathyFreston.com

• 72 Reasons to Be Vegan

• Facebook – Kathy Freston

• @KathyFreston – Instagram

• Read The Ingredients

• Call of the Reed Warbler

• Workman.com

About Kathy Freston

Hey there! My name is Kathy and I’m a lover of vegan(ish) food, fashion, health, and all things inspirational!  Although I’m totally vegan, myself, I’m a big believer in progress, not perfection… hence the “ish”!

Here’s how it started for me: One day I was playing with my little dog Lhotse. I was rubbing her belly and loving her up and thinking that she was one of the greatest joys of my life. She was wagging her tail and I swear she was smiling from the attention. I thought, “I love this dog so much! Animals are just pure love. They aren’t manipulative or mean or spiteful. They are just simple innocent creatures.” And then a little voice inside of me asked, “Well . . . if you think animals are so lovely, why do you eat them? Because you know that animal went through sheer hell to end up on your plate.” I thought: Because it’s a habit. Because I like the taste of meat.

Then I started picturing my dog as one of those food animals, locked up in a tiny cage like a chicken or a pig for her whole (short, horrible) life, and then being flung onto a truck and driven to the slaughterhouse to be killed. I knew my dog, and I knew that she had this wide range of senses and emotions, and that if she were crammed into a slaughterhouse with all those awful smells and sounds of death, she’d be terrified. Shaking, eyes wide, flat out terrified. I, of course, would do anything to save my dog from a fate like that, anything to keep her from that sort of trauma and suffering. I mean, I hated to even leave her alone for a few hours, so this connection was blowing my mind.

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